Clandestine Jones ((POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING!))

Wait... did today's page just say what I think it said? Look very, very closely at what Don says when she burps... Clady is a Conscience? What? Well, maybe to someone with an odd moral code...

Woah! The emphasis on the word "your" is definitely suspicious... whooaaaa

Maybe we're all reading too much into this, but I thought the same thing. My immediate guess was that she was a child's conscience, or something, but even then, shouldn't she be with the person whose conscience she's supposed to be? Then I started thinking about how Fiona's conscience resembled a black version of Fiona, so now I'm wondering whether Clandestine is like a "blank template" or an unassigned conscience, hence her very simple facial features.

But then I start thinking again that maybe I'm reading too much into that one line. But speculation is still fun!

I'm pretty sure she's a conscience.
But then again, she'll probably be revealed waay later that she's actually a conscience AND something else.

=/

You mean like the child of a conscience and a dreamer? Or of a conscience and a dreamworlder? Or... ok, fine, I'm just being stupid :P

=0
I never even thought that she could be the conscience of a dream worlder.
It would make sense.
Dream-Worlders are much less...logical, to put it nicely, than the 'regular' Dreamers are. Which could explain Clandy's odd self.

TJ wrote:I'm fond of the "child of dreamer and dream actor" theory, but I can't figure out why such an affair would create something like Clandy.

Why would such an affair be definite to have a normal child? What are the rules for mating growth and development of such children? Certainly the child of an impostor would be different from the child of an original.

With the conscience theory out there, I'm going to say she's an invisible friend.

Invisible friend is plausible, but I don't really think that 'invisible friends' hail from Dreamworld.
Just my opinion.

I'm saying she was something that was brought into dream world by a dreamer, like the conscience. Not that she was an invisible friend to start as.

Haha, the theory that Clandy is Fiona's teddy bear is hilarious but ...oddly plausible.

Midean wrote:Why would such an affair be definite to have a normal child? What are the rules for mating growth and development of such children? Certainly the child of an impostor would be different from the child of an original.

Well, I never said such a child would be normal, whatever "normal" means in this scenario... It's just, there's something about Clandy and others like her that strikes me as wholly dreamworld, not part of our world at all. I know I could easily be wrong, but I can't see her having a human parent. That's all.

It looks like Clandy probably is a conscience, based on the last comic. Time for a new theory?

Fiona's conscience seems to operate on the same definitions of good and bad that Fiona herself has- like when Conscience nags Fiona to apply for college or talk to her godfather, those are probably things that Fiona herself believes she should do, even if she doesn't feel like it. Clandestine, on the other hand, just does whatever she feels like doing at the time. She's done several things (eating Steve, pretending to be Lia) that probably aren't morally correct, but just make her happy. She's not bad, but she is pretty selfish.

So if she actually is a conscience, she's going to be the conscience of someone who also acts selfishly (and chaotically), or at least wants to. Maybe a child or somebody very insane... but based on what we've heard about her so far, Sadako may fit this description. She's definitely been portrayed as selfish so far.

/cracktheory

Oh, that's a good one! A bit of elaboration:

Clandy is Sadako's conscience. She was sent to spy on Fiona and try to distract her from her goals - Thus, the Lia Dreams. She can do this because, well... how many times have you had a little "movie" play in your head of the possible consequences of doing something wrong? I'm sure I'm not the only one. Perhaps Fiona trusts her because she doesn't seem to be very dangerous, despite who she belongs to. She's simply an impulsive child-like creature, doing what makes her happy. This may even give us a bit of insight to the real Sadako - maybe she took over dream world to make it more friendly, beautiful, and inviting? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

EDIT: Never mind. Don just proved this theory false. (Well, unless Sadako's not from the dream world...)

hmmm.... I don't think Clandi is a conscience. She doesn't behave like one, and I don't think a conscience would have the ability to make Fiona think she (clandi) is Lia and stuff. The emphasis on "your" in that panel could have simply been meant to imply inflection. Comics sometimes do that, bold or underline words just to establish the rhythm of the speaker.

The definition for "Clandestine" according to Google is:

conducted with or marked by hidden aims or methods; "clandestine intelligence operations"; "cloak-and-dagger activities behind enemy lines"

Done or kept in secret, sometimes to conceal an illicit or improper purpose; a person or lodge not recognized as a regular member

clandestinely - In a secret or covert manner; In an illicit way, i.e. not permitted by the law or regulations

I think that she is a...

Chimera.

Chimera
Dream Symbols:

May symbolize those fearsome qualities within the unconscious. A grotesque product of the imagination, it may represent an inability to sort out your thought or emotions.

Any thoughts?

So, Clandi could be Lia in disguise after all.

no, I don't think so. She's just pretending to be what Fi wants most so that Fi will be happy, even though she hasn't accomplished her goals. What Fi wants more than anything is to have Lia back with her, she'd rather not have to rescue her. But she know she has to, even though she doesn't like it. Enter Clandi, who tries to give her what she wants most, even though she (Fi) knows it's bad for her. Bad for her in the sense that she DOES need to rescue Lia, even though she doesn't want to believe it. I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself...

so, bored as I was, I was googling dream creatures to try and figure out what Clandi might be. I found this:

KAIES
The Kaies are unlike any beings mentioned so far. Unlike the Vacyge of the Likaer, the Kaies don't attempt to terrify or tempt the dreamer; their goal is much simpler. They eat memories and leave the dreamer a blank and dreamless husk.

Within a dream, the Kaies bring up memories from the victim's mind. Then, one by one, they begin to disassemble, destroy, and consume the memory. A Kaie's dream becomes easy to recognize because of the stark reality of the memories. It is unknown whether or not they work together.

The Kaies remain cerfully hidden within Constructs as the dream breaks apart. When moving from memory to memory or wandering the Interstices, the Kaies appear as insubstantial mists with indistinct yet disturbing features. Like the Vacyge, their true form inspires terror.


THE LIKAER
The Likaer enter a mind and tempt the victim. It begins simply, with dreams of long-term goals fulfilled, but goes far beyond that. Soon they begin to dream of insane passions and unnatural acts of self-gratification. Then the Likaer laugh as their carefully staged temptations begin to carry over into the real world.

As with all the nightmares, little is known about the Likaer. They are believed to feed off of the raw emotions that result from their actions. Furthermore, they are the most difficult to drive out of a mind, for their dreams are considered pleasant by the dreaming mind. Dream constructs actively work to oppose dreamwalkers fighting a Likaer. Additionally, the Likaer are believed to be solitary, unlike the Vacyge.

The Likaer appear as beautiful and desirable members of the gender the victim finds attractive (fi liked Cladni's name, remember?). Normally they wear little or no clothing in this guise. Their true form is very different. They are tall, thin humanoids with grotesque grins and strange coloring. The Likaer are not as physically terrifying as the Vacyge, but they are inhumanly manipulative and their grins are unnerving to even the steeliest of nerves.

So, while it seems unlikely that Clandi is entirely one of these creatures, she does model defining characteristics of both. Perhaps they provided some inspiration for her?


Source: http://www.symbolique.net/kult/dream_creatures.html

Futch wrote:The emphasis on "your" in that panel could have simply been meant to imply inflection.

Well yeah. But read it aloud, with the inflection- It sounds like someone saying that something is yours, right?

Yes it does, but other than that there's nothing to suggest that's she's a conscience. So much about her, even her name, suggests things about her nature, and none of them point me to "conscience." Maybe that panel was a red herring?

Clandy is many things. After reading all the posts here, I'm still in the dark about what she might be.

I disagree with the child of dreamer and dream actor theory because it's cliché, a concept only dabbled in during this comic.

I also disagree with the conscience theory. A conscience guides you to make the correct choices (depending on your upbringing) and it seems to me that Clandy doesn't have the substance to guide anyone.

Dream projector explains the Lia dream better, but it doesn't gibe with the remainder of her quirks. A projector displays images and information without alteration. That type of employment would influence a very staunch, perhaps even starchy, attitude in Clandy.

I can't wait to find out what the answer is.

I'm thinking she's either a daydream or a hallucination.

After much thought, I have concluded that Clandestine Jones is Fi's Id; much like Mary, "Conscience", is Fi's "Super Ego"; while Fiona herself represents her "Ego".

As support for my thesis, I give this Wikipedia excerpt: "The Id comprises the unorganized part of the personality structure that contains the basic drives. The id acts as a pleasure principle: if not compelled by reality it seeks immediate enjoyment.[3] It is focused on selfishness and instant self-gratification. ... The id is responsible for our basic drives such as food, water, sex, and basic impulses. It is amoral and egocentric, ruled by the pleasure–pain principle; it is without a sense of time, completely illogical, primarily sexual, infantile in its emotional development, and will not take "no" for an answer. It is regarded as the reservoir of the libido or "instinctive drive to create". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superego#Id

From the very beginning, Clandestine exhibits all these behaviours, being only interested in the physical, in the here-and-now, and displays totally self-absorbed behaviour. Perhaps her soulless eyes are a big give away! And it's funny how both Clandy and Fi dream in French at times. Clandy is inseperable from Fiona from the moment they neet on the bus. Everywhere Fiona goes, so does Clandestine.

Clandestine stands in contrast to Mary. When Fi hears Mary's plan to rescue Lia, her initial reaction is along the lines of "I get to see Lia again!" However, once she thinks about what this would entail, she doesn't want to face the issue of rescuing Lia. Along comes Clandestine, who almost immediately drags Fi on a dream about being with Lia in reality, which in turn causes Fi to react very unpleasantly when Mary awakens her from the fantasy. The commotion then caused by involving the bear gives Fi the opportunity to let her own selfish desires, aka Clandestine, to lead her out of the bus, and escape from the bear. Clandestine is now content to just follow Fi around, indulging in all that takes place about her. Fi starts to trust her selfish desires over her better judgment.

With her Id unleashed, Don's initial reaction to Clandestine, "You know what she is?" is explained, and his subsequent shock at mistaking Clandy as Fi's Conscience is much more understandable. The person who allows their Id to make their decisions for them is a true sociopath. It is no wonder Don recognizes that Mary now *must* be rescued, because without a Conscience guiding Fi, the Id will ultimately lead her to what could be catastrophic ends.

As this dream is ultimately Fiona's, her Id has a hidden agenda. Hence the name "Clandestine." Our deepest secret desires are often buried deep in the Id. In this case it is the ultimate overthrow of Sadako, whereby Fi will always be able to live in her dreamworld with Lia forever. It is no surprise then that Fiona gave little to no resistance to her being named leader of the DWLF. However, the end results would be catastrophic for both Lia, and Don knows this. Mary must be found and rescued. Only in so doing so, Fi will be able to make the right choice, and convince Lia to wake up from her dream, where Fi and Lia will have the opportunity to live as a real-life couple.

It is most likely the hidden fear of Fi's that Lia doesn't exist in the real world. Even if Lia existed, Lia might actually reject Fiona in the real world, hence Clandestine leading Fia on the path of keeping both there forever. However, both Mary and Don know that Lia is a real person. So Don must get Fi to her Conscience Mary, then Mary must convince Fi to do the right thing...wake Lia up.

Just how disastrous would things be if Lia isn't awakened? Fi's dream while next Clandy is most telling. Fi is becoming so selfish in her desires, than rather let Sadako take Lia, Lia is ripped in two. Oh well, Fi would get some candy out of it. Joking aside, if Fiona does not do the right thing, it will destroy Lia, mentally. Clandestine, as the Id, wouldn't ever let Fiona realize that, however.

In true, loving relationships, which ultimately Yume is all about, one must always recognize the dangers of allowing one's own selfish desires, the Id, rule one in their relationship. Clandestine can't be anything other than just that, Fiona's Id. She was glad to remove Fiona from her Conscience. And showed no concern about Mary being locked up. Now it's up to Fiona to be reunited with her conscience.

Impressive.

Oh, another thought that came to mind ... concerning how Clandestine is Fiona's Id, in balancing opposition to Mary as her Conscience ... In Megan's lovely donation poster on the "Brief Interruption Page", between pages 558 and 559, Clandestine and Mary appear to be sitting above Fi's shoulders in the classic personal Devil/Angel imagery, each whispering respectively, "Do it, Fiona," "Don't do it, Fiona"! Just some more food for thought.!

Blessings!

AmberlyssaRoig wrote:After much thought, I have concluded that Clandestine Jones is Fi's Id; much like Mary, "Conscience", is Fi's "Super Ego"; while Fiona herself represents her "Ego".

As support for my thesis, I give this Wikipedia excerpt: "The Id comprises the unorganized part of the personality structure that contains the basic drives. The id acts as a pleasure principle: if not compelled by reality it seeks immediate enjoyment.[3] It is focused on selfishness and instant self-gratification. ... The id is responsible for our basic drives such as food, water, sex, and basic impulses. It is amoral and egocentric, ruled by the pleasure–pain principle; it is without a sense of time, completely illogical, primarily sexual, infantile in its emotional development, and will not take "no" for an answer. It is regarded as the reservoir of the libido or "instinctive drive to create". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superego#Id

From the very beginning, Clandestine exhibits all these behaviours, being only interested in the physical, in the here-and-now, and displays totally self-absorbed behaviour. Perhaps her soulless eyes are a big give away! And it's funny how both Clandy and Fi dream in French at times. Clandy is inseperable from Fiona from the moment they neet on the bus. Everywhere Fiona goes, so does Clandestine.

Clandestine stands in contrast to Mary. When Fi hears Mary's plan to rescue Lia, her initial reaction is along the lines of "I get to see Lia again!" However, once she thinks about what this would entail, she doesn't want to face the issue of rescuing Lia. Along comes Clandestine, who almost immediately drags Fi on a dream about being with Lia in reality, which in turn causes Fi to react very unpleasantly when Mary awakens her from the fantasy. The commotion then caused by involving the bear gives Fi the opportunity to let her own selfish desires, aka Clandestine, to lead her out of the bus, and escape from the bear. Clandestine is now content to just follow Fi around, indulging in all that takes place about her. Fi starts to trust her selfish desires over her better judgment.

With her Id unleashed, Don's initial reaction to Clandestine, "You know what she is?" is explained, and his subsequent shock at mistaking Clandy as Fi's Conscience is much more understandable. The person who allows their Id to make their decisions for them is a true sociopath. It is no wonder Don recognizes that Mary now *must* be rescued, because without a Conscience guiding Fi, the Id will ultimately lead her to what could be catastrophic ends.

As this dream is ultimately Fiona's, her Id has a hidden agenda. Hence the name "Clandestine." Our deepest secret desires are often buried deep in the Id. In this case it is the ultimate overthrow of Sadako, whereby Fi will always be able to live in her dreamworld with Lia forever. It is no surprise then that Fiona gave little to no resistance to her being named leader of the DWLF. However, the end results would be catastrophic for both Lia, and Don knows this. Mary must be found and rescued. Only in so doing so, Fi will be able to make the right choice, and convince Lia to wake up from her dream, where Fi and Lia will have the opportunity to live as a real-life couple.

It is most likely the hidden fear of Fi's that Lia doesn't exist in the real world. Even if Lia existed, Lia might actually reject Fiona in the real world, hence Clandestine leading Fia on the path of keeping both there forever. However, both Mary and Don know that Lia is a real person. So Don must get Fi to her Conscience Mary, then Mary must convince Fi to do the right thing...wake Lia up.

Just how disastrous would things be if Lia isn't awakened? Fi's dream while next Clandy is most telling. Fi is becoming so selfish in her desires, than rather let Sadako take Lia, Lia is ripped in two. Oh well, Fi would get some candy out of it. Joking aside, if Fiona does not do the right thing, it will destroy Lia, mentally. Clandestine, as the Id, wouldn't ever let Fiona realize that, however.

In true, loving relationships, which ultimately Yume is all about, one must always recognize the dangers of allowing one's own selfish desires, the Id, rule one in their relationship. Clandestine can't be anything other than just that, Fiona's Id. She was glad to remove Fiona from her Conscience. And showed no concern about Mary being locked up. Now it's up to Fiona to be reunited with her conscience.

OMG THIS!

Way to beat me to the punch. LOL In terms of the storyline, this is one of the most probable explanations. I also think Midean's theory of Clandy being a fragmented Lia serving her punishment makes a lot of sense too. Lia was so adamant about ignoring Sadako's edicts and trying to stay with Fi, that I wouldn't be surprised if Sadako was now using LiaClandy to spy on Fi. Also, a point that I have yet to see presented is the cover of Part 2 Issue 3. That nametag cannot be ignored!