Conscience's Speech

TJ wrote:Oh, one more thing.

@FlyingLemon: Yes, some California people DO have accents. Like the pronunciation of the word "because", for example. They say "BUH-cuz" instead of "bee-CAWZ". xD And don't get me started on the valley girl "uptalking" phenomenon.

I forgot about valley girls.

FlyingLemon wrote:Do people in California have an accent? I remember a german teacher I had several years ago describe how, as he went further and further west across the US, the accents became more and more homogeneous, until he reached California, and the accentual variations almost disappeared entirely.

Yey you read my post *dances* and yes. Everyone has an accent, whether one likes it or not. Whether it's valley girl, surfer-dude, the whole "DAH-ling" thing with the whole "eccentric bitches" type... I mean, I can list tons of accents .

@TJ: I don't say because like buh-cuz all the time, only when I'm exasperated or I'm trying to mimic a cartoon voice. All the othertimes, I'm used to saying "be-cawz" :3.

IDK, S.Cali more had that southern-country twang mixed in there, I lived in N.Cali until I moved to the south then moved to the east XD.

Being black, I can see one side of this quite clearly. Being educated, I can also see the other side fairly clearly. It's the space between the two that make this difficult.

You see, I have always been taught to speak standard American English. With the exception of my grandparents, all of my relatives speak in this manner. It's not a fluke; it's how we were raised. This being the case, when I first associated with other blacks outside my family there was a bit of a language barrier.

I agree with what Rosalarian says about a concept becoming racist when that's all you see. I find it offensive when a group is judged by the actions of few. For example, my whole life my own people loved to tell me that I act and talk "white". I took offense to that because it was expected of me to sound like I wasn't appreciative of the right to an education.

Even some of my close friends tell me they don't consider me black. Which sort of hurts, because I AM black. What I am not is a n****. Ask any civilized black person and they'll all tell you there's a difference.

Conscience's speech during the beginning of YU+ME was a gimmick. It was used as a plot device from my point of view. I giggled from time to time when reading Conscience's lines. I often wondered during this if the artist even knew any real black people while writing it. However, I stepped back from myself and kept in mind that when something like this comes up, it's not always automatically to take shots at the party in question.

I'm appreciative of the development of Mary's character, and hearing her story will clarify the author's choice for Mary's previous way of acting.

I adore this comic because it's deep. There's more to it than the face of it, which I felt from the first time I saw Donovan's hair style change. I also look forward to the silencing of the ignorant reviewer who made it a point to lay waste to Mary before really knowing Mary.

Megan Rose wrote:

freakingdork wrote:
Sure, perhaps they didn't speak it at school. That doesn't mean they didn't speak it at home or when they were around other black people who wouldn't think it meant that they were unintelligent.

There's probably a lot of truth to that. Since everyone's preconceived notions of people who speak AAE are that it is unintelligent, and if you're seen as dumb, you'll be treated like you're dumb, they probably do adopt a more "normal" way of speaking so that they can be seen as just as intelligent as everyone else.

I feel I should point out that there have been studies showing some kids speak ebonics / AAE precisely because they don't want to be seen as a 'nerd' by their friends.

As one of the people who was criticizing it, I also feel like I should say that, at least for me, it's not because I'm completely uneducated as to racial issues or that I think someone is a lesser person because they talk with that particular dialect.

Yeah. There's always something very wrong when people tell you to act or talk "the way you should" for what you look like. xP What you said makes me remember the time I overheard a group of black girls at my school sneering at another for being an "oreo." It doesn't matter whether shit like that comes from friends, strangers, whites, blacks, whoever - it's always incredibly offensive.

I see this is your first and only post so far, so welcome in! Also, in case you haven't seen it, there's another thread about Conscience's manner of speaking and the controversy around it. This topic has naturally stirred up quite a bit of discussion.

I agree with you completely. I think the worst part about a stereotype is when a very large subset of the people it applies to accept the stereotype as a defining aspect of the group as a whole. I've known a great many black people who've been accused of not being truly black because they "talk white" and one who used AAVE, Ebonics, or whatever you'd like to call it who was similarly accused of not being black because, of all things, he did not like sports. (I also knew a gay guy who told me about a group of gay "friends" he had who ridiculed him for "being in the closet" with them just because he didn't share the stereotypical mannerisms associated with gay men). As harsh as it is to be rejected by the majority, I think it can hurt more to be rejected by the people you identify with.

my opinion issss...

ebonics:

a mannerism through speech passed on by culture, not race.

too many people forget culture isnt about race. i'm spanish, with enough blood to feel bad about my roots... but i don't really relate to spain at all. all the Spanish i know is 'new mexican', a matter of culture that differs greatly. when you live somewhere long enough to soak up the culture, race doesnt mean anything. white people, black, asian, etc etc etc... from the same area i can relate to. spanish people have their own 'ghetto' ebonics you know.


accents:

i think every state has something maybe like, a way of speaking rather than accent.
i heard of so called so-cal accents, but...?
people say NM ppl have an accent... but it think i sound as american as anyone, LOL

I've heard of something called the "American accent," so I guess there are many levels of speech patterns, even a type so broad that it's possible to tell what country you're from despite all the various accents found in your country. My co-worker is an English-speaker from Canada, and she's been in America long enough now that she gets teased for not sounding Canadian anymore whenever she visits home.

Are there any other PoCs on this forum topic? Not that it's required to understand, but it seems a little like a fishbowl.

As I said in my previous post, I felt the ebonics in Conscience's speech was a plot device. Being black, I don't appreciate the concept of ALL black people being portrayed this way. However, I can't deny that more often than not you come across this in everyday society (for whatever reason).

Ebonics is slang, but I disagree with it being considered a dialect of American English. Sure there's no agreed "right" way to speak the language, but there are certain rules that are followed regardless of where you speak English. Double negatives are a no-no, tenses have to match, comparative and superlative should not be used interchangably...I could go on, but I've bored you already.

Just like in any other language, slang is used to alienate. Who is alienated depends on the situation. Using code words and coming up with terms with multiple meanings was designed to keep certain people out of certain information, much like the fabled "secret handshake" that alerted lodge members they were among lodge brothers.

Personally, I use slang terms from time to time for sake of a laugh. I am insulted and confused, however, when I'm at work and someone comes to me asking questions in what can only be described as wounded English. It depends on the context for me.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm fortunate enough to have an education that my ancestors died for and my grandparents and parents suffered for, so I will continue to speak as they would have wished. I find blacks who speak in nothing but ebonics to be unappreciative of the sacrifice of those who came before us.

This is my opinion. You are all entitled to yours.