CURRENT STORY DISCUSSION

First, let me say that I'm always glad when I'm proved right. Sadako can't leave the throne peacefully - she has to die.

Moreover, it's clear that the inhabitants of Nod can't do it. They simply can't kill her. It seems it has to be a Dreamwalker, like Lia or Fi.

I don't think Don is king of Nod, unless the power can be claimed by anyone once it's free - which we'll see soon enough, I think.

So, it looks like Sadako has been grooming Lia to take over. Could Fi actually be the proverbial Monkey Wrench in her plans?

If so, it's gonna be interesting when these three finally butt heads.

OMG Megan I LOVE the last page. Such a super awesomely hilarious way of presenting a super dark theme. Also, Sadako is super pretty in the first panel where she's going all self-stabby. (And super funny in the rest.)

Dear god, I just said super four times in one paragraph. I better sleep.

So I guess people were right, Sadako needs another dreamer to kill her so she can stop being Queen. That's why she needs Lia and/or Fiona. I hope there is still some magical way to make Don end up as the king, because as I said earlier, he'd be really good at it!

What I wanna know is, how long has this chain of killing monarchs been going on? Did the King kill someone to become King?

Ok, this is a long shot probably inspired by my being awake at 2 in the morning, but... what if Lia kills Sadako and then somebody has to kill Lia? That would be heartbreaking. It wouldn't be Fiona (that would just be too sad), because I feel like we're pretty sure she went back to the RW, and if she killed the Queen she'd have to stay. (I think? Maybe Sadako only stayed because she was dead... maybe there's a way out if you're still alive in the RW) Maybe it would be better if Lia did die, though. I mean, regardless of how much we love her, she did kill hella people. =/

Kugai: Lia refused to kill Sadako, remember? So Sadako brought Fiona in instead, and used them both to devise some crazy insane plan which we have yet to find out ALL of.

carl-E wrote:New comic! But I'm confused in the first part - the girl with the minnie mouse dress, is that supposed to be Lia? I thought she was blonde by the time she met Sadako... And why the Orphan Annie "blunked out" eyes? It's a bit creepy...

Nope. She met Sadako before she went blonde. The Orphan Annie eyes just....are. I mean, back during Lia's story when Megan first used this style, they still had OA eyes. :-P

aww Sadako... I knew she had feelings, but suicide isnt the way out!
It is kind of ironic how Sadako is doing this just cause she WANTS to get ended. Usually its the upsite. XD

So... when did the DWLF enter the scene?

freakingdork wrote:

carl-E wrote:New comic! But I'm confused in the first part - the girl with the minnie mouse dress, is that supposed to be Lia? I thought she was blonde by the time she met Sadako... And why the Orphan Annie "blunked out" eyes? It's a bit creepy...

Nope. She met Sadako before she went blonde. The Orphan Annie eyes just....are. I mean, back during Lia's story when Megan first used this style, they still had OA eyes. :-P

Sorry - old age has its toll on the memory, and I wasn't up to digging through the archive last night. Thanks for the link, freakingdork!

Siubh wrote:Sadako can't leave the throne peacefully - she has to die.

I don't think today's comic necessarily tells us that. If anything, it's the other way round: Sadako can't die while she's on the throne (because Nod won't permit itself to be without a leader) so she'd have to surrender the throne first in order to die.

I'd buy that if it weren't for the King.

If the ruler of Nod could simply surrender peacefully, why didn't he? It seems clear to me that he needed her to kill him, so he could be free.

Now, it may be, as you say, that he did surrender peacefully, and then Sadako killed him, but the current evidence doesn't support that.

Look, Megan, you could probably do three straight days of strips of Sadako trying to kill herself and I don't think anyone would complain. It's a hideous thing to say but you must come to grip with something -- you draw shotgun wounds dang adorable.

NCallahan wrote:Look, Megan, you could probably do three straight days of strips of Sadako trying to kill herself and I don't think anyone would complain. It's a hideous thing to say but you must come to grip with something -- you draw shotgun wounds dang adorable.

As someone who lost a close family member to a self-inflicted gunshot wound I'm going to say I'm content with just enough for the purposes of the plot and no more.

I'd say it definitely takes someone from our world killing the present King/Queen to replace them.




Don is No-face

Oh, quit being a provocateur!

Don can't be no-face - he was with Fi, Lucy & co. when the DWLF was destroyed.

Besides, his smile just isn't creepy enough!

But I'm with you on the King/Queen of Nod needing to be someone from this world, with the control abilities that they seem to have. And it makes sense that the power over the connection between DW annd our world keeps that ruler alive well past their desire to be either ruler or alive.

I'm willing to bet Fi finds an alternative to this crappy system...

Hm, I'm not sure if I'm going to be verbally eviscerated for this or what, but... I dunno, it can't ALL be praise, can it?

I remember a while back it was mentioned that Megan (That feels almost disrespectful to me somehow since I don't know her personally... would Ms. Gedris be better? ) was cutting back the story considerably. I can't remember the exact reason why, and maybe one of you can tell me... But I guess I've been getting the feeling, especially with Sadako's arc that she's just eager to be done. There was also a blog post about this somewhere and I think in the threads.

When I say eager to be done... I mean it's seeming like she's just bored with this project. I also remember there being a post about how it's all already been written (And that's admirable, don't get me wrong), but with Lia's and Sadako's arcs, it feels rather disconnected from the narrative as a whole. We've had a LOT of exposition in a very short period of time. It feels as though... The depth of the story has deteriorated since moving to these arcs, which feel increasingly compact.

Let's start with Sadako, whose arc seems far more compact (though, I'm not sure how long this arc will go). We know next to nothing about what her life was like in Japan... The girl she was in love with doesn't have a face or a name, we can only assume her mother is dead, we don't exactly know what her social class is, but I kind of assume she is perhaps rather wealthy, we don't know her relationship with her dad other than he's "fatherly", we don't get any understanding of her sexuality (as far as I know, in any culture in that time period homosexuality was taboo, so why does she pursue Ellie so openly?), and so, all of her actions within the Dream World are seen as only "evil" or it's assumed she is a very immature person.

In Lia's arc, we know she was discriminated against because she was Italian, her family is warmly portrayed however brief, we know she is probably on the poorer side (and this contributes to her family dynamic & her life before death), and she explains her sexuality (but didn't live long enough, perhaps, to discover her attraction to women in her time period). When Sadako betrays her in the dream world, we can forgive her for becoming a mass murdering monster because she's overall a more well-developed character.

Before I finish, I do want to say that the artwork never ceases to amaze me. It feels like every page is a masterpiece, and Megan, you have grown tremendously as an artist. There is so much beauty in every page, panel and even the text boxes!

That being said, I'm just worried that maybe the script was trimmed down too thin. I really had hoped to find something about Sadako to empathize with, and maybe all of this is premature. Maybe it's all being saved up 'til the very last moment and this is something I should come back and read when it's completed.

And again, I really don't want this to turn into some rage-fest against me, these are just my thoughts as a writer. I adore this comic, and I end up always catching the next day's page at midnight. I am tremendously grateful that Megan has written a story about a gay couple, illustrated it, and gives it to us free of charge! That's a damn good deal!

Well, I suppose I'm done, hopefully I'm not torn to shreds.

-Rue

Rue wrote:..so why does she pursue Ellie so openly?

There's really no reason to over-complicate Sadako's character.

She is mentally unstable. She's not right in the head.

She can't even fathom that this girl doesn't love her and that her screaming "HELP GET HER OFF" at ( what we can assume ) is a total stranger means that she's not interested, let alone that these actions of hers might have some real-world consequences. It's not just the fact that she's a teenager, with raging hormones and underdeveloped brain tissue which already means she has less-than-impressive decision-making abilities.. If that were the only reason behind it, she'd be a normal person. But she's not normal, because she's just plain twisted.

As far as Lia is concerned, I don't "forgive her" for mass-murdering people because she's a developed character; I think forgiving her for being developed is kind of a dumb reason to forgive a character. She did things that, in comparison to what we've seen of Sadako, were even worse. She was just as, if not more, twisted than Sadako and went on a horrible rampage.

And normally, I wouldn't forgive a character for that.. Except that Megan has allowed character leniency in the form of consciences.

To date, characters like Fi and Lia never did anything too bad when their consciences were with them ( and acting properly ). Consciences are the way that I can forgive a character for doing wrong in this comic; if their conscience wasn't around, if the voice that told them right from wrong wasn't around, what can we blame them for? It isn't one of those "I have enough human spirit to know the difference anyway" situations. The character will be affected, regardless.

I will say, however, that we can tell Sadako is different from Fi and Lia, and we can tell that Sadako is more twisted and, yes, "evil", for the simple fact that.. Unlike Fi and Lia, Sadako did not listen to her conscience. Even when she was around Sadako, she got ignored. Fi's and Lia's did not. And I think that's what separates a bad person from a good person in Megan's comic, at least if they're a person from the real world entering the dreamland; a good person will listen to their conscience, while a bad person will not.

.. Aaaaaaand as far as the narrative is concerned, I don't think Sadako's and Lia's chapters were ever meant to be fleshed out like you'd want them to. They're really side-narratives to the main storyline, meant to give us enough insight to help us better understand why things are happening in Fi's story. If Megan kept explaining details about the stories that were meant to explain details, she'd be explaining details forever. Honestly, I think we're lucky to have gotten as much as we did.

All the parts that got cut were between issues 9 and 10 (of part 2).

Lia, Lucy, and Sadako's stories were always planned to be short. (Actually, they were planned to be even shorter, but I added to them!) Because the story isn't about Lia, Lucy, and Sadako. It's about Fiona. The others' experiences inform Fiona's, but most of their lives were irrelevant to Fiona's. I'm just telling the parts of their stories that make it easier to understand Fiona's, but I've been tossing in some bits to develop their characters, too.

Lia and Sadako are both very, very old. In order to go as in-depth into the details of their lives as I did for Fiona would mean that I'd have to write 100x as many pages for them as I did for Fiona. So it's summarized. Lia was Italian in WWII, had a boyfriend, Sadako brought her to Nod, stole her conscience, she became a mass murderer, stared in Fiona's dream. Sadako was Japanese in England in 1867, loved a girl named Ellie, got killed, became Queen of Nod, drove her own conscience away, fell in love with Lia, etc. (With Lucy, her backstory was going to only be 8 pages, but then there was too much I had to say about her.)

As adorable as the big gaping circular hole in the tummy is, that kinda shot always bugs me (the movie Death Becomes Her did the same thing). What's holding up her upper body if not her spine? The remaining part of her sides can't. I know they're in Nod, but there's still some gravity right? (I admit this applies more to the movie Death Becomes Her, but there isn't a forum for that movie for me to complain about, so I'm getting my venting done here! Other than that I'm really liking the story.)

I have seen some people complaining about separation from narrative and such lately with these side stories, but I am feeling the exact opposite. This is Fiona's story after all as Megan said. I am going nuts thinking about how all this relates to what is happening to Fiona. Does Sadako want Fiona to replace her? Lia? What will happen to Sadako when she finally succeeds at dying? Will it really be a fight or an assisted suicide? Will she tell them she wants to die or will she make them fight her to trick them into becoming queen?
Plus, I am still not sure that you have to be an outsider to become queen/king. Maybe it is just the outsiders who don't know enough are the only ones who would actually agree to do it? Cause I totally want Lucy to be queen, it would be a great way to redeem herself after betraying the DWLF and a great way to accomplish their goals.

Don becomes King.

Or they find a way to recreate democracy in Dreamland.

Okay, not particularly good with the quoting mechanism, so just bear with me, kay? Also this is way long, so, jumping to your name might be a good idea if you don't wanna hear my rambling. XD

@ (or rather, in response to) TheResult: I've never liked the cop-out, "Well, she's just insane, so you're over-analyzing.". And I absolutely don't believe in "evil" without some sort of explanation as to why. It feels too much like a Disney villain. Granted, once Sadako becomes queen, she does have reason for retribution against Ellie, however deluded it may be.

I'm not the kind of person who likes to speculate about the story, and hell if I'm any expert on England in 1867, but again, her open pursuit of Ellie seems very... anachronistic (But on that note, apparently in Japan during that time period homosexuality was on its way out due to Western influences). So this leads me to believe, and boy if I don't get pummeled for this one, maybe it has something to do with the absence of her mother (D'oh, just looked up that yes, she was dead). Or maybe she was just as socially isolated in Japan as she was in England?

On the note of consciences; Himitsu was never actually present for her to ignore during her most vile acts. We don't know who tied her up when the king was (presumably) killed by her and she wasn't present in the, err, "rape room" for Ellie. She did listen to her conscience, however reluctantly, when there needed to be order in the kingdom. And all other instances before banishing her, she kinda had a, "Pfft, why should I listen to you, but sigh, I guess I will until you leave" attitude. And with the revelation of Ellie's conscience... We realize they don't always give sage advice. It's all much more complicated than good people and bad people. On that note, I think she was trying to do something good for humanity by exposing them to the Dream World, so... She's just not straight-up, Disney-evil.

@Megan Rose: How cool you responded! That explains some, but I suppose, whereas Lia's back story fits rather well into the narrative in terms of relating back to "This is Fiona's story" and she came for answers, and deserved them, and Lucy's even has cuts back in time to show how it fits into Fiona's story. Sadako's seemed abrupt, though it has many parallels to Fiona's life... Ah, I think I just got it. I think I was right about reading this issue once it's completed.

Thanks for the clarification!

@Katisanse: I think Lucy is probably dead, now that we know more about Sadako. Or maybe has her head on a pike outside the castle as a warning, better yet, has her head on display in one of those glass jars Futurama style. I guess I see her "redeeming" herself by like, jumping in front of some attack to save Fiona and that whole trope... I don't see her taking over the Dream World, no matter how awesome her character design is :<

@TheResult: I think there is probably something darker about Don that we don't know yet. As much as I like him, and it seems EVERYONE does, Megan has never seemed to cower to fan demand and takes enormous risks as a writer... I suspect she has a wild card she's had tucked away in her back pocket since Don became our "narrator".

Megan Rose wrote: [...] Sadako brought her to Nod, stole her conscience [...]

So she did steal Lia's conscience, eh? This is something I would like to have seen in the comic, Megan. It would be something very relevant. What were her motivations?

Megabyte wrote:

Megan Rose wrote: [...] Sadako brought her to Nod, stole her conscience [...]

So she did steal Lia's conscience, eh? This is something I would like to have seen in the comic, Megan. It would be something very relevant. What were her motivations?

We do see Sadako look over and go "YOU!" and grab her (the conscience), then later we see her in a dungeon

Megabyte wrote:

Megan Rose wrote: [...] Sadako brought her to Nod, stole her conscience [...]

So she did steal Lia's conscience, eh? This is something I would like to have seen in the comic, Megan. It would be something very relevant. What were her motivations?

I thought it was pretty clear what happened with these pages:

http://rosalarian.com/yume/?p=1786
http://rosalarian.com/yume/?p=1788
http://rosalarian.com/yume/?p=1790
http://rosalarian.com/yume/?p=1819
http://rosalarian.com/yume/?p=1822
http://rosalarian.com/yume/?p=2056
http://rosalarian.com/yume/?p=2049

I imagine we'll find out Sadako's intentions later.

As for the current page: Sadako looks so old! Symbolic of her mental state?

Yay new page! I am betting that we are getting close to"hearing" no face's dialogue from this page. I am sure I am not the only whose money is on that this conversation centering around him "finding the strongest heart" in a little three year old named Fiona. In dream world time, this gives plenty of lock up time for Lia and her concience while Fiona grows older. I am speculating that Sadako planned to have Lia kill her- that was the whole point of the duel and adequately explains Sadko's line "I need-" ( you to fight and kill me) but she chooses not to press thenpoint with the discovery of a stronger heart. Instead, (possibly because of Lia's lack of motivation in the killing dept) spend the intervening years "planning" how to entrap Fi and ensure someone will kill her. As i have posted elsewhere, i still think Don will be king, though I have yet to work out the details and I am positive that Fi's choice (whatever that choice is)will be significant in Don's kingship.

I was thinking the same thing about Sadako, she looks so very haggard, it's gotta be how her mind feels. Why try to make yourself look beautiful as the ruler of Nod, when all you want is to die. And oooooommmmmgawd! how creepy is No-Face getting so happy to eat people... ~shiver~

Oh, and the fact that No-Face thought he was being chosen as a replacement shows that Nod dwellers can be ruler.